"A colleague and a friend of mine came to us as a client, had a PhD in dementia care, was very well respected in it. And he would say to me, 'you architects Stephen, you tell a good story, but you don't deliver'. But his point was, as an architect, you've got the confidence you're designing, you're going to sell the idea. He was saying there was no substance behind what people were telling him were good for people with dementia. I kind of took the challenge on, you know, cups of coffee on the deck of the house that we designed and worked with him over many years was a part of this ongoing conversation around architecture, built environment, design for dementia care models; I took him to task and got him to assist me and we started to get really deeply involved in how it unfolded, and he was my referee for my Churchill Fellowship. So I got an interview; one of my interview panel says to me, 'Stephen, so how do you feel that one of your referees said that there is no architectural expertise in the design of dementia in Australia?' and I said, 'it looks like I'm sitting in the right seat, doesn't it?' "